Comments on: Guest Post: The Victorian Department of Justice and Web 2.0 http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/ Design by Ben Crothers of Catch Media Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:51:50 +1000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Madeleine Kingston http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-14541 Madeleine Kingston Sun, 25 Apr 2010 03:50:53 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-14541 Fabian you have raised an important issue of mutual trust. Please see my comments in response to Asa’s and Kishan’s today 25 April. I have qualms about Facebook and the negative press that it ahs received, but also recognize that that is where a certain demographic of the population spends much time and there are considerations about the “mounting going to Mohammed” Undertaking with an open mind and a spirit of flexibility in creating “living documents and policies in devising methods for community engagement and leaving the door open for re-consideration of policies as indicated by experience or feedback will allow evaluation of systems in place and their efficacy. If the goal is to target numbers of people seeking information or short tweets and blogs “in the moment” certain types of social media are good. Deeper goals of forming ongoing community engagement in more depth requires a different forum. I greatly prefer to blog on the Gov2 site than anywhere else and appreciate the leeway given to me with length of postings since brevity is not my strength and I prefer a more in-depth communication. For that reason alone, leaving aside any consideration of safety, bad press or the downside of online for a like Facebook, I am far less likely to use that particular form of social media. However, I do post on the APO website, on Gov2 and other places, and am considering openaustralia, which for me represents a few initial technical challenges in terms of ease of use and under-developed skills with embedded links, attachments etc. My view is that the ultimate goal should be to develop a two-way communication with the wider community and identify and encourage in-depth dialogue with those interested enough to participate at that level. Nicholas Gruen as Chair of the Taskforce has referred to Layered Participation – and I have made my response in the usual way. Finally keeping a presence, re-visiting pertinent editorials and demonstrating interactive dialogue will all help to enhance the impression of a live and living platform for proper engagement. Cheers Madeleine Fabian you have raised an important issue of mutual trust. Please see my comments in response to Asa’s and Kishan’s today 25 April.

I have qualms about Facebook and the negative press that it ahs received, but also recognize that that is where a certain demographic of the population spends much time and there are considerations about the “mounting going to Mohammed”

Undertaking with an open mind and a spirit of flexibility in creating “living documents and policies in devising methods for community engagement and leaving the door open for re-consideration of policies as indicated by experience or feedback will allow evaluation of systems in place and their efficacy.

If the goal is to target numbers of people seeking information or short tweets and blogs “in the moment” certain types of social media are good.

Deeper goals of forming ongoing community engagement in more depth requires a different forum.

I greatly prefer to blog on the Gov2 site than anywhere else and appreciate the leeway given to me with length of postings since brevity is not my strength and I prefer a more in-depth communication. For that reason alone, leaving aside any consideration of safety, bad press or the downside of online for a like Facebook, I am far less likely to use that particular form of social media.

However, I do post on the APO website, on Gov2 and other places, and am considering openaustralia, which for me represents a few initial technical challenges in terms of ease of use and under-developed skills with embedded links, attachments etc.

My view is that the ultimate goal should be to develop a two-way communication with the wider community and identify and encourage in-depth dialogue with those interested enough to participate at that level.
Nicholas Gruen as Chair of the Taskforce has referred to Layered Participation – and I have made my response in the usual way.

Finally keeping a presence, re-visiting pertinent editorials and demonstrating interactive dialogue will all help to enhance the impression of a live and living platform for proper engagement.

Cheers

Madeleine

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By: Madeleine Kingston http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-14537 Madeleine Kingston Sun, 25 Apr 2010 03:10:26 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-14537 Kishan I too would like to know more about the pros and cons of Facebook usage, and have noted Dave's comments and reservations. It may surprise the Team that despite my attitude of openness, seeking on publication of my own full name, by phone number and my email address in all of my public submissions for formal consultative processes, and as far as possible in digital dialogue, I have not yet opened a Facebook account. This is because I do have qualms over the negative reports about Facebook and some of the publicized damage. On the other hand, I note from Gov2's Final Report Chapter 7 that Facebook was disabled without spelling out the reasons. I believe that demographic considerations will dictate people’s preferences for where they wish to post. My style is long-winded and micro-blogs such as facilitated by Twitter and perhaps Facebook do not suit me. I prefer to go into more depth, to be faced with liberal and permissive moderation policies (that are clearly iterated), and seek a more in-depth engagement with Government than other blogging activities would give me a chance for. Recently I had a negative experience of blogging that I have described on another Gov2 page in which what appeared to be a fairly insular and "like-minded" group seemed intolerant of blogs that were of more depth and not calculated to target the "30-second attention span" (their phrase). I felt uncomfortable with his and also with what deteriorated into a mud-slinging match associated with the topic under discussion - the plight of international students, with my views being very much in the minority. I believe blog forums that are set up with the idea of forming collaborative partnerships with the "passionate few who wish to engage" need to accommodate all sorts of styles and approaches to reach a wide demographic population, and to understand the deeper reasons motivating some bloggers. Many are content with one-liners - on Twitter I have responded occasionally in this way as quick responses to news items. Otherwise, for my needs and expectation I seek to develop a relationship with Government on issues of concern to me and to attempt where possible to influence policy in the spirit of embedding the deeper policy goals of Gov2. Having said that the demographic sweep that needs to be caputred needs to be considered when devising strategies for digital engagement. This no doubt will bring challenges. To return to the Facebook issue - I have heard much of thee downsides. Since I am not directly involved on Facebook it is hard to comment, but clearly there are difference perspectives to take into account and evaluate. I have responded, however to the posting by Asa Letourneau's (forgive me for reversing the name and calling you Dave instead of Asa and calling Dave Asa - slip of the digital pen). I explored the Victorian Department of Justice site, participated in their survey and provided my feedback in a similar way in which my posting on this page is articulated. It is clear that my desire for engagement is established and that I have views that may hot be shared by others - but for what they are worth..... Finally Darren, than you very much for an article that has stimulated thought and discussion - the only way to nut out pros and cons. The key is implementing policies that are flexible enough to change in response to stakeholder needs and expectations or if other factors prove that a new direction is warranted. Regards Madeleine Victorian Individual Stakeholder Kishan

I too would like to know more about the pros and cons of Facebook usage, and have noted Dave’s comments and reservations.

It may surprise the Team that despite my attitude of openness, seeking on publication of my own full name, by phone number and my email address in all of my public submissions for formal consultative processes, and as far as possible in digital dialogue, I have not yet opened a Facebook account.

This is because I do have qualms over the negative reports about Facebook and some of the publicized damage.

On the other hand, I note from Gov2’s Final Report Chapter 7 that Facebook was disabled without spelling out the reasons.

I believe that demographic considerations will dictate people’s preferences for where they wish to post.

My style is long-winded and micro-blogs such as facilitated by Twitter and perhaps Facebook do not suit me. I prefer to go into more depth, to be faced with liberal and permissive moderation policies (that are clearly iterated), and seek a more in-depth engagement with Government than other blogging activities would give me a chance for.

Recently I had a negative experience of blogging that I have described on another Gov2 page in which what appeared to be a fairly insular and “like-minded” group seemed intolerant of blogs that were of more depth and not calculated to target the “30-second attention span” (their phrase). I felt uncomfortable with his and also with what deteriorated into a mud-slinging match associated with the topic under discussion – the plight of international students, with my views being very much in the minority.

I believe blog forums that are set up with the idea of forming collaborative partnerships with the “passionate few who wish to engage” need to accommodate all sorts of styles and approaches to reach a wide demographic population, and to understand the deeper reasons motivating some bloggers.

Many are content with one-liners – on Twitter I have responded occasionally in this way as quick responses to news items.

Otherwise, for my needs and expectation I seek to develop a relationship with Government on issues of concern to me and to attempt where possible to influence policy in the spirit of embedding the deeper policy goals of Gov2.

Having said that the demographic sweep that needs to be caputred needs to be considered when devising strategies for digital engagement. This no doubt will bring challenges.

To return to the Facebook issue – I have heard much of thee downsides. Since I am not directly involved on Facebook it is hard to comment, but clearly there are difference perspectives to take into account and evaluate.

I have responded, however to the posting by Asa Letourneau’s (forgive me for reversing the name and calling you Dave instead of Asa and calling Dave Asa – slip of the digital pen).

I explored the Victorian Department of Justice site, participated in their survey and provided my feedback in a similar way in which my posting on this page is articulated.

It is clear that my desire for engagement is established and that I have views that may hot be shared by others – but for what they are worth…..

Finally Darren, than you very much for an article that has stimulated thought and discussion – the only way to nut out pros and cons.

The key is implementing policies that are flexible enough to change in response to stakeholder needs and expectations or if other factors prove that a new direction is warranted.

Regards

Madeleine

Victorian Individual Stakeholder

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By: Madeleine Kingston http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-14531 Madeleine Kingston Sun, 25 Apr 2010 01:44:42 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-14531 Hi Dave I am so glad that I saw your comment in response to Asa Letourneau's question. The link you provided allowed me to find out what Victoria was doing to connect with the community. The survey monkey invited me to respond with feedback on the my experience of the site at http://www.vic.gov.au/social-media/facebook.html I reproduce the essence of my survey response. The site looks most inviting. It provides a great opportunity for community connections to be formed and timely information to be provided. The purpose of my visit today was simply to explore, given the link you provided in your posting. I am just beginning to explore the world of digital communication as a tool that has enormous potential to break down seemingly entrenched barriers to forming effective partnerships with the wider community. The policy goals of Gov2 go well beyond informat9on provision and accessibility. I am hoping that as things develop, a webpage may be created for each government department at all three tiers of government to allow feedback both positive and negative on matters of concern that may assist addressing issues as they arise on a stitch in time basis. One of the most effective ways in which negative perceptual barriers can be addressed is direct reach to stakeholder constituents whose opportunities for engagement would otherwise be denied. I applaud Gov2 and the Victorian implementation of this innovative communication initiative. I have made a note of the links that may help me keep up to date on matters of interest and now know where to find the Victorian Department of Justice easy-access site. You will note from my numerous postings on line the level of my personal enthusiasm and instant engagement. I am about to explore the openaustralia site, which has a list of policy matters in a drop-down box to which citizens are encouraged to make comment or to provide information. This is an initiative endorsed by the Minister for Deregulation The Hon Lindsay Tanner. I plan to learn how to use the openaustralia site. The suggestions include providing attachments or links with blogs which I think is a great idea. I believe that some written online guidance should be made available to those less familiar with web usage to help hurdle technical barriers in providing information or using the web facilities. One issue may be showing the public how to attach documents in support of briefer blogs; how to embed links and how to generally navigate a site where a two-way dialogue is envisaged. You will see from my comments of 23 April on Comment on Access to PSI – Who is doing what? in response to Amanda Lawrence's posting as Editor of Australian Policy Online how much I have appreciated timely digital access to excellent social policy data, including research papers. Since my new excursion into the world of social media blogging I am discovering the potential use of these innovative initiatives to reach target audience and open up the dialogue with those who may form neither part of the not-for-profit sector as it is formally defined; nor the bureaucracy. I believe strongly that effective data sourcing and management is a central role in ensuring access to pertinent research and other data that may help to improve policy considerations on topical matters of interest. My underlying reasons and expectations of Gov2 and all similar initiates goes well beyond access to information. I am looking to see true embedding of the policy goals behind Gov2. A leaf may be taken from openaustralia. Direct encouragement is provided on their site to comment on any matter of governance and policy or other matter of concern that constituents wish to bring to the attention of Government in addition to exchanging views with fellow citizens. This type of collaboration is the only way in which a stitch in time policy response may be made, emerging issues nay be identified and disillusionment pre-empted before the problems become entrenched and difficult to address. I for one will look forward to expansion of the level and nature of communication that is achievable in the era of digital media. Technical and budgetary barriers aside, which I feel sure can be surmounted, can Australia afford not to avail itself of these opportunities for engagement, feedback and collaboration in addressing policy issues across the board? The 21st century brings many challenges. This one represents one of the more positive. Seize the day! Madeleine Hi Dave

I am so glad that I saw your comment in response to Asa Letourneau’s question.

The link you provided allowed me to find out what Victoria was doing to connect with the community. The survey monkey invited me to respond with feedback on the my experience of the site at

http://www.vic.gov.au/social-media/facebook.html

I reproduce the essence of my survey response.

The site looks most inviting. It provides a great opportunity for community connections to be formed and timely information to be provided.

The purpose of my visit today was simply to explore, given the link you provided in your posting.

I am just beginning to explore the world of digital communication as a tool that has enormous potential to break down seemingly entrenched barriers to forming effective partnerships with the wider community.

The policy goals of Gov2 go well beyond informat9on provision and accessibility.

I am hoping that as things develop, a webpage may be created for each government department at all three tiers of government to allow feedback both positive and negative on matters of concern that may assist addressing issues as they arise on a stitch in time basis.

One of the most effective ways in which negative perceptual barriers can be addressed is direct reach to stakeholder constituents whose opportunities for engagement would otherwise be denied.

I applaud Gov2 and the Victorian implementation of this innovative communication initiative. I have made a note of the links that may help me keep up to date on matters of interest and now know where to find the Victorian Department of Justice easy-access site.

You will note from my numerous postings on line the level of my personal enthusiasm and instant engagement.

I am about to explore the openaustralia site, which has a list of policy matters in a drop-down box to which citizens are encouraged to make comment or to provide information. This is an initiative endorsed by the Minister for Deregulation The Hon Lindsay Tanner.

I plan to learn how to use the openaustralia site. The suggestions include providing attachments or links with blogs which I think is a great idea.

I believe that some written online guidance should be made available to those less familiar with web usage to help hurdle technical barriers in providing information or using the web facilities.

One issue may be showing the public how to attach documents in support of briefer blogs; how to embed links and how to generally navigate a site where a two-way dialogue is envisaged.

You will see from my comments of 23 April on Comment on Access to PSI – Who is doing what? in response to Amanda Lawrence’s posting as Editor of Australian Policy Online how much I have appreciated timely digital access to excellent social policy data, including research papers.

Since my new excursion into the world of social media blogging I am discovering the potential use of these innovative initiatives to reach target audience and open up the dialogue with those who may form neither part of the not-for-profit sector as it is formally defined; nor the bureaucracy.

I believe strongly that effective data sourcing and management is a central role in ensuring access to pertinent research and other data that may help to improve policy considerations on topical matters of interest.

My underlying reasons and expectations of Gov2 and all similar initiates goes well beyond access to information. I am looking to see true embedding of the policy goals behind Gov2.

A leaf may be taken from openaustralia. Direct encouragement is provided on their site to comment on any matter of governance and policy or other matter of concern that constituents wish to bring to the attention of Government in addition to exchanging views with fellow citizens.

This type of collaboration is the only way in which a stitch in time policy response may be made, emerging issues nay be identified and disillusionment pre-empted before the problems become entrenched and difficult to address.

I for one will look forward to expansion of the level and nature of communication that is achievable in the era of digital media.

Technical and budgetary barriers aside, which I feel sure can be surmounted, can Australia afford not to avail itself of these opportunities for engagement, feedback and collaboration in addressing policy issues across the board?

The 21st century brings many challenges. This one represents one of the more positive. Seize the day!

Madeleine

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By: asa letourneau http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-14487 asa letourneau Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:45:35 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-14487 <blockquote>“The Success of Facebook….” well can someone tell me exactly what value an organisation has gained by being “on” Facebook? </blockquote> Dave, looks like some of the answers (aa far as Victoria is concerned) may be found here: http://www.vic.gov.au/social-media/facebook.html

“The Success of Facebook….” well can someone tell me exactly what value an organisation has gained by being “on” Facebook?

Dave, looks like some of the answers (aa far as Victoria is concerned) may be found here:
http://www.vic.gov.au/social-media/facebook.html

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By: Fabian D http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-12625 Fabian D Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:52:04 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-12625 Harnessing social media (web 2.0) is vital for the future of government control. Basically, they lose more control without actually embracing it, because the public majority accesses it more frequently than any other publication. The problem i see is the public trusting Government media pages such as those in Facebook, and of course the page owners have to trust the visitors. It creates a public forum, but in all honesty the forum is there anyway - so moderation i agree with, but disabling goes against the grain. Out of site, out of mind approach. It will be interesting to see how the Gov progresses and encourages internal usage. The process might be organic based on the demographic of users and stats on usage. Harnessing social media (web 2.0) is vital for the future of government control. Basically, they lose more control without actually embracing it, because the public majority accesses it more frequently than any other publication.

The problem i see is the public trusting Government media pages such as those in Facebook, and of course the page owners have to trust the visitors. It creates a public forum, but in all honesty the forum is there anyway – so moderation i agree with, but disabling goes against the grain. Out of site, out of mind approach.

It will be interesting to see how the Gov progresses and encourages internal usage. The process might be organic based on the demographic of users and stats on usage.

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By: Dave Abrahams http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-11397 Dave Abrahams Thu, 25 Mar 2010 05:46:13 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-11397 "The Success of Facebook...." well can someone tell me exactly what value an organisation has gained by being "on" Facebook? Other than the fact that every one else is on it. Which is why so many people took up smoking in the old days. The damage that has been done to numerous organisations who've launched onto Facebook with little thought for risks to their reputation. Recently the Newcastle Knights NRL team turned off their forum after defamatory and outright abusive posts. The mixed up graphic user interface of Facebook places some of this rubbish right under their major sponsor and right alongside an add for adult sex dating. These are the risks that are inherent in the platform. Twitter I get! For organisations this is more manageable and can be a great avenue for small bites of information to be broadcast, republished and questioned. Though few people use it wisely. “The Success of Facebook….” well can someone tell me exactly what value an organisation has gained by being “on” Facebook? Other than the fact that every one else is on it. Which is why so many people took up smoking in the old days.

The damage that has been done to numerous organisations who’ve launched onto Facebook with little thought for risks to their reputation.
Recently the Newcastle Knights NRL team turned off their forum after defamatory and outright abusive posts. The mixed up graphic user interface of Facebook places some of this rubbish right under their major sponsor and right alongside an add for adult sex dating. These are the risks that are inherent in the platform.

Twitter I get! For organisations this is more manageable and can be a great avenue for small bites of information to be broadcast, republished and questioned. Though few people use it wisely.

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By: Carol Kelly http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-9211 Carol Kelly Mon, 01 Mar 2010 21:34:23 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-9211 Enjoyed this article, stimulating and challenging. I look forward to continued thought provoking material to assist with building change within my own area of work. Enjoyed this article, stimulating and challenging. I look forward to continued thought provoking material to assist with building change within my own area of work.

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By: asa http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-7978 asa Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:54:28 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-7978 <blockquote>The success of Facebook and Twitter has shown us how important it is for public services to move out from behind our websites and to go to where the people are.</blockquote> Darren, so great to hear about the initiatives you have been involved in. I'm especially interested in the challenges involved in changing a "You come here" to a 'We'll come to you" culture in which government is just one of many contributors to conversations taking place on the digital front. In our own small way PROV is testing the water with new ways of engaging with researcher communities in an effort to understand their changing expectations and needs. The frustration comes from the lag in acquiring those skills to implement all the new ideas. Fortunately there seems to be just enough third-party support out there to help us along! Asa Letourneau, Online Exhibitions Officer, Public Record Office Victoria The views expressed in this post are those of the indivdual and do not represent those of his employer. The views expressed in this post are those of the individual and do not represent those of his employer.

The success of Facebook and Twitter has shown us how important it is for public services to move out from behind our websites and to go to where the people are.

Darren, so great to hear about the initiatives you have been involved in. I’m especially interested in the challenges involved in changing a “You come here” to a ‘We’ll come to you” culture in which government is just one of many contributors to conversations taking place on the digital front. In our own small way PROV is testing the water with new ways of engaging with researcher communities in an effort to understand their changing expectations and needs. The frustration comes from the lag in acquiring those skills to implement all the new ideas. Fortunately there seems to be just enough third-party support out there to help us along!

Asa Letourneau, Online Exhibitions Officer, Public Record Office Victoria

The views expressed in this post are those of the indivdual and do not represent those of his employer.

The views expressed in this post are those of the individual and do not represent those of his employer.

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By: Online Services - AGIMO http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-7390 Online Services - AGIMO Sun, 24 Jan 2010 23:31:39 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-7390 Hi Kishan, The Taskforce discussed their online activities, including their Facebook page, in chapter 7 of their <a href="http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/gov20taskforcereport/index.html" rel="nofollow">final report to the Australian Government</a>. You may also be interested in the outputs of <a href="http://gov2.net.au/projects/project-19/" rel="nofollow">a project commissioned by the Taskforce before it disbanded to review those online activities</a>. Hi Kishan,

The Taskforce discussed their online activities, including their Facebook page, in chapter 7 of their final report to the Australian Government. You may also be interested in the outputs of a project commissioned by the Taskforce before it disbanded to review those online activities.

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By: Kishan http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/12/31/guest-post-the-victorian-department-of-justice-and-web-2-0/comment-page-1/#comment-7335 Kishan Fri, 22 Jan 2010 04:14:21 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=1750#comment-7335 "We've disabled posting on Facebook..." Please elaborate on why this precautions/strategy/ was adopted. If my gov unit is to have its own Facebook page i would like to know why you've disabled this function yourself and redirected them to your blog. Does this mean that its better for us to have a presence on FB but get people to participate actively in a separate blog? Thank you. “We’ve disabled posting on Facebook…” Please elaborate on why this precautions/strategy/ was adopted. If my gov unit is to have its own Facebook page i would like to know why you’ve disabled this function yourself and redirected them to your blog.
Does this mean that its better for us to have a presence on FB but get people to participate actively in a separate blog?

Thank you.

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