Comments on: Our design competition http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/ Design by Ben Crothers of Catch Media Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:51:50 +1000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Jacques Chester http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-/#comment-157 Jacques Chester Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:17:59 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-157 I didn't look at it that way, but I'm still unsure. I now suspect that even with a well-established taskforce blog community, there'd still be anger that a government-funded taskforce wasn't stumping up dosh for design. Your Microsoft example is imperfect because they've burnt so many bridges so thoroughly. Right now there's furious debate about whether the Mono framework should be included in the Debian distribution. Mono isn't even Microsoft software, it's a partly-compatible opensource system based on .NET, which was independently implemented with no impetus from Microsoft. But the very whiff of Microsoft is enough to get people's hackles up. Outside of partisan circles and libertarians, I did not expect to find such hostility to the task force's invitation. In open source circles the usual answer to people asking to write something is an amused shrug at best, "write it yourself" at worst. I'd be surprised if there were programmers talking about being professionally insulted. As a programmer I already get people coming to me with grand ideas for which they propose to split some future earnings 50-50. I politely decline and explain my rate and terms. I don't find it necessary to accuse them of devaluing me or my work. We didn't come to terms, life goes on. The fact is that most people just don't know at all what's involved in programming. I certainly don't know what goes into design, but nobody has yet convinced me that it's so different from other professions that the angry, accusatory campaigning is necessary or justified. As for reputation systems, I am wary of them, having seen quite a few getting gamed over the years. In my experience (starting with a <5000 Slashdot user id) it has demonstrated again and again that there is no purely technological solution to a social problem. But I suspect you have more insight on this than I do. I didn’t look at it that way, but I’m still unsure. I now suspect that even with a well-established taskforce blog community, there’d still be anger that a government-funded taskforce wasn’t stumping up dosh for design.

Your Microsoft example is imperfect because they’ve burnt so many bridges so thoroughly. Right now there’s furious debate about whether the Mono framework should be included in the Debian distribution. Mono isn’t even Microsoft software, it’s a partly-compatible opensource system based on .NET, which was independently implemented with no impetus from Microsoft. But the very whiff of Microsoft is enough to get people’s hackles up.

Outside of partisan circles and libertarians, I did not expect to find such hostility to the task force’s invitation. In open source circles the usual answer to people asking to write something is an amused shrug at best, “write it yourself” at worst. I’d be surprised if there were programmers talking about being professionally insulted.

As a programmer I already get people coming to me with grand ideas for which they propose to split some future earnings 50-50. I politely decline and explain my rate and terms. I don’t find it necessary to accuse them of devaluing me or my work. We didn’t come to terms, life goes on. The fact is that most people just don’t know at all what’s involved in programming. I certainly don’t know what goes into design, but nobody has yet convinced me that it’s so different from other professions that the angry, accusatory campaigning is necessary or justified.

As for reputation systems, I am wary of them, having seen quite a few getting gamed over the years. In my experience (starting with a <5000 Slashdot user id) it has demonstrated again and again that there is no purely technological solution to a social problem. But I suspect you have more insight on this than I do.

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By: lpapworth http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-/#comment-156 lpapworth Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:47:10 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-156 Communities can absolutely run competitions as part of events and campaigns. But a blog is not a community, it's a one -to- many channel. Or in this case, 12-to-many channel. And even if you disagree that a blog is about presenting content to the network for a comment, rather than actual collaboration, a new blog is never going to be seen straight off the bat as community. That takes time. Put it this way - imagine a big technology company like Microsoft said they get "open source" and ask the open source communities to create their new products. They would get quite a different response if they do that first, than if they make themselves useful first, then ask for help. In fact it's the latter that happens in the open source development world. This group needs to move fast to proper engagement, on real issues, otherwise it will be perceived as lip service to a trendy subject with fluffy competitions thrown in to appease. That is already happening. Oh by the way, metagovernment has very clear strategies around a points system for contribution. Points = value to network therefore = currency. A scoring system in place first would've limited the negative comments about the competition as everyone would understand that those who contribute get rewarded with a higher score... Communities can absolutely run competitions as part of events and campaigns. But a blog is not a community, it’s a one -to- many channel. Or in this case, 12-to-many channel. And even if you disagree that a blog is about presenting content to the network for a comment, rather than actual collaboration, a new blog is never going to be seen straight off the bat as community. That takes time.
Put it this way – imagine a big technology company like Microsoft said they get “open source” and ask the open source communities to create their new products. They would get quite a different response if they do that first, than if they make themselves useful first, then ask for help. In fact it’s the latter that happens in the open source development world.

This group needs to move fast to proper engagement, on real issues, otherwise it will be perceived as lip service to a trendy subject with fluffy competitions thrown in to appease. That is already happening.

Oh by the way, metagovernment has very clear strategies around a points system for contribution. Points = value to network therefore = currency. A scoring system in place first would’ve limited the negative comments about the competition as everyone would understand that those who contribute get rewarded with a higher score…

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By: Jacques Chester http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-155 Jacques Chester Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:25:41 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-155 I sometimes deal with Nick Gruen, so I probably should have joined the dots on this idea and the Google kerfuffle a few weeks back and warned him myself. But I am not a designer, I'm a code slinger. I guess we don't have the same bee in the bonnet about design competitions, especially since opensource projects run them all the time without any such apparent controversy. I sometimes deal with Nick Gruen, so I probably should have joined the dots on this idea and the Google kerfuffle a few weeks back and warned him myself. But I am not a designer, I’m a code slinger. I guess we don’t have the same bee in the bonnet about design competitions, especially since opensource projects run them all the time without any such apparent controversy.

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By: James De Angelis http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-154 James De Angelis Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:22:12 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-154 Oh wow, what an amazing oppurtunity not to get paid and get your work shown on a website people barely visit. The only thing "2.0" about this is the amount of bullshit people can try and spin to get what they want. Oh wow, what an amazing oppurtunity not to get paid and get your work shown on a website people barely visit.

The only thing “2.0″ about this is the amount of bullshit people can try and spin to get what they want.

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By: Designer http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-149 Designer Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:11:02 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-149 Why am I not surprised? Government organisations are always pulling this scam. Are you honestly telling us with the way the current government is throwing around cash that a cash reward is out of the question? Pathetic, really. As another reader mentioned, you don't get a sense of pride from these things, usually it's a sense of shame. Why am I not surprised? Government organisations are always pulling this scam. Are you honestly telling us with the way the current government is throwing around cash that a cash reward is out of the question? Pathetic, really.

As another reader mentioned, you don’t get a sense of pride from these things, usually it’s a sense of shame.

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By: lpapworth http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-153 lpapworth Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:53:40 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-153 Just a quick note: Asking a community that is not yet formed or newly forming to do creative work tends to incite negative comments. There are numerous, large, anti-communities that are opposed to design work being done for free - GoGetFunkd and NoSpec are two that I have seen over the years. Anyone that runs social networks knows that and knows how to handle them. I would've advised to wait until you built up a reasonable readership and established tone, values, and a personable voice before asking voters to donate time/services. Hope this helps, Laurel Papworth @SilkCharm, Social Network Strategist Just a quick note:
Asking a community that is not yet formed or newly forming to do creative work tends to incite negative comments. There are numerous, large, anti-communities that are opposed to design work being done for free – GoGetFunkd and NoSpec are two that I have seen over the years. Anyone that runs social networks knows that and knows how to handle them. I would’ve advised to wait until you built up a reasonable readership and established tone, values, and a personable voice before asking voters to donate time/services.
Hope this helps,
Laurel Papworth @SilkCharm, Social Network Strategist

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By: Australia: Bans, Filters and Government 2.0 Taskforce | Laurel Papworth- Social Network Strategy http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-151 Australia: Bans, Filters and Government 2.0 Taskforce | Laurel Papworth- Social Network Strategy Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:44:45 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-151 [...] systems. Unfortunately the Taskforce first act was to make a fundamental online community booboo - please make us a logo kthnxbai - but hopefully they will learn as time goes on.  See here for more information on the perils of [...] [...] systems. Unfortunately the Taskforce first act was to make a fundamental online community booboo – please make us a logo kthnxbai – but hopefully they will learn as time goes on.  See here for more information on the perils of [...]

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By: Jonathan http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-150 Jonathan Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:44:22 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-150 Although no design expert ..or creative genius either as a corporate strategist I did work with the global branding team that developed the new brand for GE a few years back. At the time I think GE was in the top 10 of globally recognized brands and the end result of all these efforts - allow the GE monogram to extend beyond its traditional black (as had been the case for 100+ years) to using one of 14 differrent palets. The strategy - keep it simple - keep it fresh. So my two cents - leave the banner as it is. It looks good - it is simple and fresh. One thing I learnt about the branding process was eliminate clutter and if Government 2.0 is all about communication - keep it simple as all communication should be. By the way to all those who complained about submitting proposals for the banner/logo competition - I have to say you really do need a lesson in strategy 1.0. Good luck to those design studio's that just got on with it - they will prosper as they have the right mindset. Remember success is more about attitude than aptitude. Although no design expert ..or creative genius either as a corporate strategist I did work with the global branding team that developed the new brand for GE a few years back. At the time I think GE was in the top 10 of globally recognized brands and the end result of all these efforts – allow the GE monogram to extend beyond its traditional black (as had been the case for 100+ years) to using one of 14 differrent palets. The strategy – keep it simple – keep it fresh.

So my two cents – leave the banner as it is. It looks good – it is simple and fresh. One thing I learnt about the branding process was eliminate clutter and if Government 2.0 is all about communication – keep it simple as all communication should be. By the way to all those who complained about submitting proposals for the banner/logo competition – I have to say you really do need a lesson in strategy 1.0. Good luck to those design studio’s that just got on with it – they will prosper as they have the right mindset. Remember success is more about attitude than aptitude.

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By: Todd Lopez http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-148 Todd Lopez Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:28:26 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-148 A big hello from Creative Order, wishing everyone whos entered the competition all the best of luck… To view our submission go to… http://creative-order.com/govbanners.html I do agree with some of the comments made above. Although I'm also of the opinion that competition is what makes the world go round… and I think it can be a great avenue for discovering new illustrators artists and designers alike. Some high-profile Designers have previously used winning a competition to springboard their careers and raise their profile. A good example of an illustrator who has recently had a well deserved profile lift is Mike Watt, his stunning work won him the TED 696 brown paper bag competition. See his work and the competition here. http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/2009/ted-696-bag-designs/ The team at Creative Order have also been fortunate enough to win a recent competition check it out here… http://www.lostateminor.com/2009/06/24/david-marc-marinelli/ A big hello from Creative Order, wishing everyone whos entered the competition all the best of luck… To view our submission go to…

http://creative-order.com/govbanners.html

I do agree with some of the comments made above. Although I’m also of the opinion that competition is what makes the world go round… and I think it can be a great avenue for discovering new illustrators artists and designers alike. Some high-profile Designers have previously used winning a competition to springboard their careers and raise their profile. A good example of an illustrator who has recently had a well deserved profile lift is Mike Watt, his stunning work won him the TED 696 brown paper bag competition. See his work and the competition here. http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/2009/ted-696-bag-designs/

The team at Creative Order have also been fortunate enough to win a recent competition check it out here…

http://www.lostateminor.com/2009/06/24/david-marc-marinelli/

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By: Catch Media » Blog Archive » Open markets: let’s not forget the ‘we’ in web 2.0 http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/our-design-competition/comment-page-1/#comment-147 Catch Media » Blog Archive » Open markets: let’s not forget the ‘we’ in web 2.0 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:57:36 +0000 http://gov2.net.au/?p=62#comment-147 [...] a competition to design a banner for their website gov2.net.au. Judging from the comments on their announcement and call for entries, there’s a lot of huffing and puffing about not doing spec work. I think they’ve missed [...] [...] a competition to design a banner for their website gov2.net.au. Judging from the comments on their announcement and call for entries, there’s a lot of huffing and puffing about not doing spec work. I think they’ve missed [...]

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