Comments on: Welcome to the Government 2.0 Taskforce http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/ Design by Ben Crothers of Catch Media Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:51:50 +1000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Nicholas G http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-616 Nicholas G Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:00:15 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-616 Comments from a worker in the Government web/data facing trenches. A couple of you seem to feel that AGIMO has the mandate to prescribe what agencies must do with regards their browser versions, data schemes etc. They don't have that mandate, they simply have a duty to provide best advice and agencies take on what they will. AGIMO has produced very good information regarding Information Interoperability but they don't appear to have the funds to train agencies in how to implement it, or a mandate. They have also done excellent work around the Australian Government Architecture (AGA) which includes the data reference model. But once again it is not being updated, publicised or mandated - although the Business Reference Model was updated to version 2.0 over a year ago it is still not available in print or on their web site. Michael and Gordon. Totally agree about directory.gov.au and similar types of web facing data. There is the Linked Data project that includes schema's such as F.O.A.F (Friend of a Friend), DBpedia, US Census data and many many other formats and a few hundred million pieces/triplets of data for free us. directory.gov.au rebuilt from its out of date X500 format using FOAF would allow a WofG org chart/"who is" framework to be referenced from a single data store. Just one of 1,000's of opportunities available to the government if they look to the future with their web standards. On that point, when is RDF, RDFa and OWL going to get a look-in? Or is anything less than 10 years old too new to be considered? I feel there are a lot of underlying standards that need to be reviewed before we get a strong framework for interoperability across both the government data stores and make it ready for use in the public domain. AS4590 (interchange of client information) for example is unused by the large majority of government departments. And not surprisingly when you look at it (try working out how to use the address elements in any sensible way - most projects just default to the fallback position of using the 3 or 4 text fields). One last thing, review your copyright laws for government data and information in general. Look at how successful the UK has been using Creative Commons licenses instead of copyright. To summarise: - 1/ Give AGIMO a mandate (Gershwin got it half way there, give it some more - along with the funds to audit and advice) 2/ Provide auditable government information/IT standards (maybe use CobiT as the methodology and the schema's defined by AGIMO as part of the auditable elements) 3/Make departmental CIO's the stewards of the departments data (you therefore have an owner and a publicist for the above deliverables) Then open appropriate data stores up for re-use within the public domain. Nicholas Comments from a worker in the Government web/data facing trenches.

A couple of you seem to feel that AGIMO has the mandate to prescribe what agencies must do with regards their browser versions, data schemes etc. They don’t have that mandate, they simply have a duty to provide best advice and agencies take on what they will.

AGIMO has produced very good information regarding Information Interoperability but they don’t appear to have the funds to train agencies in how to implement it, or a mandate. They have also done excellent work around the Australian Government Architecture (AGA) which includes the data reference model. But once again it is not being updated, publicised or mandated – although the Business Reference Model was updated to version 2.0 over a year ago it is still not available in print or on their web site.

Michael and Gordon. Totally agree about directory.gov.au and similar types of web facing data. There is the Linked Data project that includes schema’s such as F.O.A.F (Friend of a Friend), DBpedia, US Census data and many many other formats and a few hundred million pieces/triplets of data for free us. directory.gov.au rebuilt from its out of date X500 format using FOAF would allow a WofG org chart/”who is” framework to be referenced from a single data store. Just one of 1,000’s of opportunities available to the government if they look to the future with their web standards.

On that point, when is RDF, RDFa and OWL going to get a look-in? Or is anything less than 10 years old too new to be considered?

I feel there are a lot of underlying standards that need to be reviewed before we get a strong framework for interoperability across both the government data stores and make it ready for use in the public domain. AS4590 (interchange of client information) for example is unused by the large majority of government departments. And not surprisingly when you look at it (try working out how to use the address elements in any sensible way – most projects just default to the fallback position of using the 3 or 4 text fields).

One last thing, review your copyright laws for government data and information in general. Look at how successful the UK has been using Creative Commons licenses instead of copyright.

To summarise: -
1/ Give AGIMO a mandate (Gershwin got it half way there, give it some more – along with the funds to audit and advice)
2/ Provide auditable government information/IT standards (maybe use CobiT as the methodology and the schema’s defined by AGIMO as part of the auditable elements)
3/Make departmental CIO’s the stewards of the departments data (you therefore have an owner and a publicist for the above deliverables)
Then open appropriate data stores up for re-use within the public domain.

Nicholas

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By: Michael T http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-/#comment-132 Michael T Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:02:20 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-132 I second the directory.gov.au proposal, and would like to nominate some additional candidates for API-ification: <a href="https://www.tenders.gov.au/" rel="nofollow">AusTender</a> <a href="http://www.comlaw.gov.au" rel="nofollow">Commonwealth Law</a> Is there scope to add a poll to allow visitors to vote on which government website they'd like to target for additional levels of openness? I second the directory.gov.au proposal, and would like to nominate some additional candidates for API-ification:

AusTender
Commonwealth Law

Is there scope to add a poll to allow visitors to vote on which government website they’d like to target for additional levels of openness?

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By: Bec http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-131 Bec Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:49:38 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-131 Love the blog, I shall hope the government makes an effort to use less buzzwords, jargon and phrases that don't make sense! Re http://www.financeminister.gov.au/media/2009/mr_352009_joint.html what does this mean? "...to establish a pro-disclosure culture". If a 10 year old wouldn't understand it, don't write it on the web! Love the blog, I shall hope the government makes an effort to use less buzzwords, jargon and phrases that don’t make sense!

Re http://www.financeminister.gov.au/media/2009/mr_352009_joint.html what does this mean? “…to establish a pro-disclosure culture”. If a 10 year old wouldn’t understand it, don’t write it on the web!

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By: Ross Hill http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-130 Ross Hill Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:40:55 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-130 Hey Cait! If the taskforce aren't organising anything - I'd be happy to have an open coffee somewhere :) Let me know :) Hey Cait!

If the taskforce aren’t organising anything – I’d be happy to have an open coffee somewhere :)

Let me know :)

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By: Alan Gresley http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-129 Alan Gresley Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:40:33 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-129 I would have to agree with Jimi Bostock here. Web 2.0 is about interoperability and sharing. To use a browser such a Internet Explorer 6 which has held the web back by over 8 years does not allow for the ideal of Web 2.0 to come into view. Myself and fellow colleagues in the web development and design community totally dislike IE6. It makes the development of Internet and Intranet sited about 3 time as long. That's if something actually works in IE6. The amount of garbage code that a web developer or designer has to throw at IE6 to make it work like better browsers (that truly support web standards) is outrageous. Having to hack for IE6 is a total waist of everyone time. All sectors of society feels the affect in some way or another of IE6. BTW, Moderator, please allow this comment through. I am known by people in high places who develop web browsers or attempt to advance interoperability so what I say is accurate and is not a rant. I would have to agree with Jimi Bostock here. Web 2.0 is about interoperability and sharing. To use a browser such a Internet Explorer 6 which has held the web back by over 8 years does not allow for the ideal of Web 2.0 to come into view.

Myself and fellow colleagues in the web development and design community totally dislike IE6. It makes the development of Internet and Intranet sited about 3 time as long. That’s if something actually works in IE6.

The amount of garbage code that a web developer or designer has to throw at IE6 to make it work like better browsers (that truly support web standards) is outrageous. Having to hack for IE6 is a total waist of everyone time.

All sectors of society feels the affect in some way or another of IE6.

BTW, Moderator, please allow this comment through. I am known by people in high places who develop web browsers or attempt to advance interoperability so what I say is accurate and is not a rant.

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By: Alan Gresley http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-128 Alan Gresley Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:21:19 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-128 Please no representatives from Google or Microsoft. The former allows censorship of YouTube and that later is about monopoly. All against transparency. Please no representatives from Google or Microsoft. The former allows censorship of YouTube and that later is about monopoly. All against transparency.

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By: Andrew Harvey http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-127 Andrew Harvey Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:22:15 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-127 My 2 cents, As huge numbers of people and comities have already advised the government to do, you should open up all (or most) forms of government data to the public for free (as in $$) under either the public domain (as in the copyright license (or explicit lack of)) or with just the clause of use requiring attribution of the source of the data/information. eg. parliamentary video's, city rail timetable data. The public and private companies can do great things with this data, putting it to use if only we are given a copyright licence that won't turn citizen into criminals just for re-using data. This is not hard for data that is already out there its just changing a few words on the relavant government web site. My 2 cents,
As huge numbers of people and comities have already advised the government to do, you should open up all (or most) forms of government data to the public for free (as in $$) under either the public domain (as in the copyright license (or explicit lack of)) or with just the clause of use requiring attribution of the source of the data/information. eg. parliamentary video’s, city rail timetable data. The public and private companies can do great things with this data, putting it to use if only we are given a copyright licence that won’t turn citizen into criminals just for re-using data. This is not hard for data that is already out there its just changing a few words on the relavant government web site.

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By: Jimi Bostock http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-126 Jimi Bostock Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:42:53 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-126 Paul, you are so right. As long as the federal government agencies are using IE 6, we can't really take any of this fully seriously. Working with federal agencies, my web dev team has to dumb everything down so that site work for them. Of course they will say that this is needed to esnure access and equity but with all the latest browsers being free - I even saw one recently provided on a disc in a cereal box - then the A&E issues is a furphy. I would suggest that if AGIMO is serious then an immediate upgrade of browsers across the government would be seen as a statement of commitment to the latest technologies. Paul, you are so right. As long as the federal government agencies are using IE 6, we can’t really take any of this fully seriously.

Working with federal agencies, my web dev team has to dumb everything down so that site work for them. Of course they will say that this is needed to esnure access and equity but with all the latest browsers being free – I even saw one recently provided on a disc in a cereal box – then the A&E issues is a furphy.

I would suggest that if AGIMO is serious then an immediate upgrade of browsers across the government would be seen as a statement of commitment to the latest technologies.

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By: Nicholas Gruen http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Nicholas Gruen Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:35:34 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-125 Thx for the comment Paul, I think we may already have had some influence. I know of another initiative being established in government, and it seems to be intending to operate much as we are trying to operate. I don't know if our influence is direct, or whether we're both part of the same zeitgeist. But here's hoping it's more than window dressing, that's certainly our intention on this Taskforce, but it's way too early to claim victory. Thx for the comment Paul,

I think we may already have had some influence. I know of another initiative being established in government, and it seems to be intending to operate much as we are trying to operate. I don’t know if our influence is direct, or whether we’re both part of the same zeitgeist. But here’s hoping it’s more than window dressing, that’s certainly our intention on this Taskforce, but it’s way too early to claim victory.

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By: Rae Buerckner http://gov2.net.au/blog/2009/06/22/launch-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-124 Rae Buerckner Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:33:10 +0000 http://gov2t.wordpress.com/?p=12#comment-124 Wow! What an awe inspiring post, do you blog? If not you should this is fantastic stuff. If you're on Govloop please connect with me :) Cheers, Rae Wow! What an awe inspiring post, do you blog? If not you should this is fantastic stuff. If you’re on Govloop please connect with me :)

Cheers,

Rae

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